DUST Search - Forge guns are bullshit

GeneralButtNaked wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

The Laser Rifle has heat build up and must be fired for that long continously to ever kill anyone with substantial health, especially armor, which is does a terribly low amount of damage too. I'm talking 200 DPS against armor, here. Obviously, I can't move very quickly while shooting. Are you telling me that there was no possible way to kill him, from any position within my optimal range, including getting him from behind to the head, without getting OHKO'd and it's somehow my fault?

GG. Try harder. Also, I use the forge against Snipers and other Forge Gunners and it is hilarious. If you are "skilled" enough, you can completely negate everyone elses skill.

Using a shield biased weapon against a target with over 1000 armor HP is not exactly the smartest thing to do is it?

What most people don't realize, or seem to forget in the heat of combat is how to strafe when firing on a FG user. If your strafe patterns bring you back to the same point twice, enjoy death. Especially if you decide to do figure eights, as the crossover normally happens right around charge up with an IAFG.

If something takes you that long to kill, then you need backup. If you can't do it without sitting practically still enough for the FG to get a bead on you, then you shouldn't do anyhting other than strip his shields off and let someone else finish him off.

Laser is a fantastic support weapon, and used against a group with greens in place to finish them, you can help to devastate a squad with brutal efficiency.

Running the laser solo, against almost any suit is asking for problems. So maybe you should get some friends to play with you before you go complaining about how your poor tactics, poor gear selection allowed a heavy to kill you for being a dummy.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 934	Posted - 2013.11.18 14:03:00 - [1] - Quote This problem does not exist only with Scouts 5m away. I have caught Heavies completely off guard with my Laser 75m away and after 3 seconds straight of firing, he'll line up a shot and OHKO me. I do the same all the time as a Heavy. I don't act like it's perfectly OK that I have a Charge Sniper Rifle that has no sway, requires no skills and OHKOs everyone up to 300m away and flashed bright red when it will do so, still often dealing hundreds of damage if I miss. I am in miltia gear with a forge gun. I shoot at a prototype Heavy with a SMG. He takes 90% of my health down with his HMG. I switch to my forge and charge it as I hide behind a rock for a few seconds, strafe out, OHKO. Oh boy, what skill it took! Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 15:54:00 - [2] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: This problem does not exist only with Scouts 5m away. I have caught Heavies completely off guard with my Laser 75m away and after 3 seconds straight of firing, he'll line up a shot and OHKO me. So, you stayed in the same place long enough for his FG to charge, and then are upset when you get blasted? Not a problem with the forge that you did something incredibly stupid. The Laser Rifle has heat build up and must be fired for that long continously to ever kill anyone with substantial health, especially armor, which is does a terribly low amount of damage too. I'm talking 200 DPS against armor, here. Obviously, I can't move very quickly while shooting. Are you telling me that there was no possible way to kill him, from any position within my optimal range, including getting him from behind to the head, without getting OHKO'd and it's somehow my fault? GG. Try harder. Also, I use the forge against Snipers and other Forge Gunners and it is hilarious. If you are "skilled" enough, you can completely negate everyone elses skill. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 15:59:00 - [3] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: soooo nerf the already gimped class? further nerfing the FG? I wouldn't nerf the Forge Gun at this point, even though I think it's a bit ridiculous that a Heavy 100m above you on a tower can get 10-20 kills and no deaths just firing at pixels and everyone who shoots back gets instantly killed. I just don't think it takes a huge amount of skill to use, like some other players do. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:04:00 - [4] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: soooo nerf the already gimped class? further nerfing the FG? I wouldn't nerf the Forge Gun at this point, even though I think it's a bit ridiculous that a Heavy 100m above you on a tower can get 10-20 kills and no deaths just firing at pixels and everyone who shoots back gets instantly killed. I just don't think it takes a huge amount of skill to use, like some other players do. More skill than an AR tbh Oh, no, definitely. Pretty much every gun in the game needs more skill than an AR. The Forge Gun needs skill, just not as much as people say. I whip it out once in a while to take out a HAV, and I kill at least half the people that run at me thinking I'm an easy kill by just waiting for it to flash red and firing. A truly good Forge Gunner is really only killable by another Forge Gunner, a good Sniper or a mass attack. I use the Forge Gun to counter snipe and it is hilarious. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:22:00 - [5] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: The Laser Rifle has heat build up and must be fired for that long continously to ever kill anyone with substantial health, especially armor, which is does a terribly low amount of damage too. I'm talking 200 DPS against armor, here. Obviously, I can't move very quickly while shooting. Are you telling me that there was no possible way to kill him, from any position within my optimal range, including getting him from behind to the head, without getting OHKO'd and it's somehow my fault? GG. Try harder. Also, I use the forge against Snipers and other Forge Gunners and it is hilarious. If you are "skilled" enough, you can completely negate everyone elses skill. Using a shield biased weapon against a target with over 1000 armor HP is not exactly the smartest thing to do is it? What most people don't realize, or seem to forget in the heat of combat is how to strafe when firing on a FG user. If your strafe patterns bring you back to the same point twice, enjoy death. Especially if you decide to do figure eights, as the crossover normally happens right around charge up with an IAFG. If something takes you that long to kill, then you need backup. If you can't do it without sitting practically still enough for the FG to get a bead on you, then you shouldn't do anyhting other than strip his shields off and let someone else finish him off. Laser is a fantastic support weapon, and used against a group with greens in place to finish them, you can help to devastate a squad with brutal efficiency. Running the laser solo, against almost any suit is asking for problems. So maybe you should get some friends to play with you before you go complaining about how your poor tactics, poor gear selection allowed a heavy to kill you for being a dummy. That was a while back. I no longer use the LR, even though I mained it for so long, because it's really not very good. The DPS is the lowest of all the rifles unless you have long sustained fire on target within a 15m span, during which anyone can run too close or too far, behind a rock, or kill you because you can't strafe fast enough. Mathematically, it sucks, and I have several posts on the matter somewhere on these boards. It wrecks with a good squad, but so does my Tactical Assault Rifle, without having a tiny span walled by cliff drop offs. 99% of the Lasers I see never kill me, because I know its flaws and exploit the crap out of them. Unless their team is completely suppressing me, it just doesn't work. In that case, I'd be dead anyway. Also, sorry, but no one on my crappy pub team could "finish off" a Heavy on the tower on the map I was on. It's walled in and the only gap is the one he was shooting out of. I stripped his shields at least 5 times and he retreated each time to restore them, because, you know, the Laser doesn't do **** to armor. In fact, the damage build up and efficacy end up nerfing each other out, since you deal the most damage to shields before you heat up and then get a sharp drop on the heightened DPS to armor. Maybe if I was on a competent squad and we had multiple Snipers babysitting him, they could've finished the job. God knows that a Dropship would never make it past his lolforgegun. I kill plenty of Forge Gun users. The smart ones in good locations, however, are essentially invincible in a pubs unless you also pull out a Forge Gun or Charge Sniper them to the head. I eventually did kill him with a Forge Gun. He respawned on an uplink. It didn't end until we dropped an Orbital on him, at which point we lost the match by a sliver anyway since he and a few others like him made it impossible to hack the terminal. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 941	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:27:00 - [6] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I was jumping around.... He hit me in the air. So then it is just bad luck for you, and great luck for him. Why did we need to have this discussion, you already knew the answer. This is true enough. It's like when I pull out my Scrambler Pistol and hipfire to the head while jumping. If the RNG Gods smile upon me, the enemy pops due to the 450% damage and I see a +60/72 pop up on my screen. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 943	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:57:00 - [7] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: So, playing on a rings socket, that heavy can cover one objective. Simple solution, let the enemy have it. You fight for the objective under cover, that it can't hit, and the forge is never a problem. It's Domination. GeneralButtNaked wrote: A single FG user up high on that map is not invulnerable. The roof he was on is not flat, and a heavy cannot cover all directions at once. If he was firing on the objective, then he could easily have been dropped in on by a DS. Once again however, there was zero tactical advantage in you attacking a target you could not kill. You should have rolled with your squad, and kept racking up WP while staying out of the objective he was camping. Then drop an orbital on the tower, and be done with it. If the only way for your team to win a game involves trying to cap a camped objective, you are doing it wrong. Dropships are far from discreet. I attacked him because there was no one left, except him and several others like him (some with snipers, some with drivers, which I did kill or suppress as they respawned) who were preventing the objective from being captured. Again, it's Domination. There is one objective and the enemy slipped in and hacked it with a Minmatar Logistics in, quite literally, 3.5 seconds. We didn't have an Orbital at that particular time. Unless I supply camp, no one is making any WP quickly. GeneralButtNaked wrote: So what was it, one FG up top or a squad? They are two very different things, and you should be clear on what you were facing unless you want to be called on your bias. Playing Domination without having a plan to control the heights is asking to get fisted, and you got exactly what you deserved. Look at it this way: If you and some friends can't figure out how to take a roof, you better just give up on ever being able to do anything in PC. If you don't know how to fight and win for the heights, enjoy losing badly. First, I'll be exact. It was multiple targets. They had uplinks on the roof. There was usually one Forge Gunner and one Mass Driver user, occasionally with Snipers. To the side is a bridge between buildings, for lack of a better term, with Scramblers and more Mass Drivers camping hives on it. The farmed WP generated Orbitals to make things even worse. What bias could I have? Oh, I got killed? What, 3% of my deaths are to Forge Guns at most? I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm not calling for anything. I'm just saying that Forge Guns can be very cheap and don't always take a godly amount of skill to use. People act as if the guy going 15/0 with a Forge Gun on a tower is some god of gaming. Please. My first match as a noob when I was posting 1/0s with a militia Forge Gun I went 17/3. It's hilarious. Second, it was a pubs match. I'm only one guy, he's only one guy. My squad is not corporation mates or strategic geniuses. He or someone else takes a ship up there with burners at the very start of the match and plants uplinks. 2-4 guys are always up there with AoE weapons and Snipers until you Orbital them. No one would call in a ship in fear of it getting blown, or they couldn't pilot one. Please explain to me how I was supposed to pilot a militia dropship through Forge Gunners and the inevitable Swarm launchers, land on the roof, wipe out the 2-3 guys that are there at any given time and blow the uplinks, with time to spare to capture the terminal and win the match. The loss was indeed a combination of poor team cohesion (in a random public match, who would have thought?) and good team cohesion on the other side. However, the fact that it takes several snipers or a dropship with multiple passengers to take out a lolheavyforge on a tower is hilarious. It's like an instant win in public Domination on some maps unless the enemy team is a full squad from one corporation or q-synchers. I did OK, but my team got wrecked. It happens. I don't even care enough to continue writing. You can chock it up to poor strategy in a pubs match Domination when a stubborn Forge Heavy denies Terminal hacks and no one wants to risk or can pilot a DS. My point was simply that I could use my weapon, in optimal range, for three times as long as, say, an AR would kill him, and he can turn towards me and OHKO me, even if it did take him a while to get his reticule on me. I've fought Assault Forge Gun users that just fire into the crowd from 150m away and pick up a dozen kills and a couple of deaths, at most. It just seems cheap, I don't know. I have no problem dieing. I do have a problem getting OHKO'd from sniper range, when not even a Thale can OHKO me to the head. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 943	Posted - 2013.11.18 17:01:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Just gonna chime in on the topic of tower forge gunners. Best counter is another forge gun. Which is what I usually do, now. It's not worth the time and risk to get up there when I can just OHKO with the same gun. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.